West-Hubbarderen 2417 Belgian Dark Strong

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brockboland
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I thought I'd plan ahead and

I thought I'd plan ahead and put reminders in my calendar for the candi syrup additions and realized something that will be of interest to everyone brewing on Saturday: day 5 (the first addition) is Thanksgiving. Is anyone planning on going in to the brewhouse that day? Is there some flexibility in the recipe, for an addition a day early or a couple days late? If not, I might push my brew back to Tues or Wed so that I'll be around to add candi syrup.

Also: can I ask some newbie questions? Some of this stuff is new to me.

  • Water additions: do those go into the strike water while it's heating, or right into the mash tun?
  • Epsom salts: is the stuff from a drug store OK?
  • OG: are we aiming for 1.088 into the fermenter, or is that taking the candi syrup into account?
  • Styrian Goldings: Brew & Grow didn't have it, but the guy said the Styrian Celeia that they do have is practically identical. Is that an acceptable substitution for this recipe?

Thanks!

Kyle N
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Worst case scenario, I'll be

Worst case scenario, I'll be around Thanksgiving and could swing in sometime that morning and add sugar for everyone. But really, it shouldn't matter that much between Thursday and Friday. 

  • I throw my salts into the grist, so that it just gets added right during the strike. 
  • There's a container of MgSO4 on the brewhouse shelf by the StarSan. 
  • O.G. without sugar should be around 1.077 according to BeerSmith (targeting 70% efficiency and 5.5 gallons at the end of the boil)
  • Those hops shold be fine. EKG would also be pretty similar, perhaps cut with a little bit of Saaz. Josh can chime in here - he'll know what's best. 

I've got my starter wort cooling down in the sink as I type - see y'all Saturday. 

 

 

JamesLewis
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I honestly don't even taste

I honestly don't even taste hops in my beer anymore and don't remember the hop flavor being very important. I bet you could throw in any spicy hop.

The intention if the say 4 sugar is to add it after peak fermentation, not necessarily day 4, day 5 or 6 would be fine. Once the airlock slows down and most the maltose is gone. I thought mine was hot after the first month or two, so you could even wait to day 7 after the bubbling is real slow but not stopped.

josh s
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Alot of batch's for this got

Alot of batch's for this got completed on saturday, thanks everyone.

 

Mark,

Have you brewed yet?  We are now under the clock to complete before we need to extract the stout from the barrel approx early jan.  If not when are you brewing?

MarkWalters
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Yup - brewed on Sunday.

Yup - brewed on Sunday.

ChuckMac
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Sweet! All has been brewed!

Sweet! All has been brewed! Way to go guys!

Zach Burns
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I'm crazy excited to see this

I'm crazy excited to see this all go down. I brewed I think about a month ago, should I be concerned about leaving it on the cake for another month?

josh s
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You should rack it off to

You should rack it off to secondary

MarkWalters
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Are we putting this into

Are we putting this into barrel tomorrow?

josh s
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Barrel got filled yesterday.

Barrel got filled yesterday.  

 

John your batch was the last to go in and there was alot left that didnt fit.  If you want you can go ahead and put it on tap at the bh or bottle etc.

josh s
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Also everyones empty carboys

Also everyones empty carboys have been piled under the stairs.

There is now alot under there if you so please come get them asap.

brockboland
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Awesome, thanks Josh!

Awesome, thanks Josh!

johngammal
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Hi barrel project buddies.  I

Hi barrel project buddies.  I bottled the leftover beer I had and, after giving one to my friend that helped, I have 12 bombers and thirteen 12 oz bottles.  Do we all want to split them up among the 11 of us or bust them out at Stout night?  They're at my place now, so just left me know.  It ended at 1.018 with an ABV of 8.5%

Zach Burns
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My vote is stout night, but

My vote is stout night, but wouldn't mind either way. If we go stout night, it would be cool to reserve a few bombers for a side-by-side. 

JamesLewis
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Hold them until it comes out

Hold them until it comes out of the barrel. It will give some indication of what the barrel did to the base beer.

Jeff W
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John, however you decide to

John, however you decide to distribute, I'm all for me getting a bottle.  :)

kengetty
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John...I agree with James.  I

John...I agree with James.  I think everyone will get much more out of it if you wait till the beer come out of the barrel to compare the two side-by-side.

johngammal
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How convenient, Jeff.  I like

How convenient, Jeff.  I like the idea of holding for the barrel, as well.  We can have some together when they're ready and there should be enough for all to take home a bottle.  I'll keep them at my place, under lock and key, until the barrel is ready

johngammal
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So since I started brewing in

So since I started brewing in November '13, I saved a bottle of every brew I made and kept it in my closet at room temperature. I over carbonated a couple batches and tossed them, but a couple weeks ago a double IPA I made in May exploded in my closet.  Really bad with glass shards everywhere.  That started me freaking out about that all the other bottles I was was saving were eventually going to end my life. I've since concluded that since I've kept the bottles at room temp, the yeast has continuously been eating sugar and the co2 created is trapped in the bottle and will eventually explode.  I transferred all the bottles to the fridge to stop this activity and beers that were well carbed when made, were over carbed when I opened them.  Can anyone verify if my conclusion is correct?

More importantly, I opened one of the bottles of this Westi clone, since I was now worried one would kill/blind me and it was delicious.  Thank the beer gods that I didn't over carb it.  But I want to know if I can keep this beer at room temp (70 degrees) or if I should store this in my fridge?  Thanks for your help with this, Chaos

JamesLewis
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Bottle bombs!

Bottle bombs!

john I blew up a couple dozen bottles when I first started brewing. Typically they don't explode from just regular carbonation and bottle conditioning, even highly carbed beers like a Belgian. 

I would say that all of my explosions were due to bacterial infection. Bacteria can eat sugars yeast cannot and when that happens in a sealed bottle it creates enough pressure to blow up the bottle. I picked up most infections from not cleaning the bottles well enough before sanatizing. But as we all know it can be picked up many different places, like the chiller, racking cains, the ferm room, etc. if a bottle gushes out the top when opened it's usually a sign of infection.

Putting them in a fridge is a good solution. It will slow down or stop any bacterial activity. It will also allow more co2 to be absorbed into the the beer, lowering the overall pressure in the bottle.

JamesLewis
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But also, it's highly

But also, it's highly unlikely the yeast is causing the bottle bombs. Unless you were bottling at like 7 days after start of fermentation. There is just not enough sugars left after typical fermentation that yeast can eat to cause the pressures required for an explosion.

Zach Burns
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Conventional wisdom is that

Conventional wisdom is that after 7-10 days, the yeasties won't give you bottle bombs. Correct me if I'm wrong on the science, but I believe each strain has a sugar level at which they stop doin' their thang. So if you bottle once the gravity has leveled off, priming sugar gives it just enough to get the carbonation and a tad more alcohol (around .2% ABV). As long as your priming sugar is evenly distributed, your chances of an uninfected batch going nuclear is pretty much 0. So to echo James, it's probably not the yeast. (and I hope not, I've been cellaring a beer I made for a friend's wedding 4 years ago for their 5th anniversary in a closet with my wife's clothes...)

johngammal
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Zach and James, thank you so

Zach and James, thank you so much for the feedback!  I went from water rinsing my bottles and squeezing sanitizer in them a couple times to soaking them in sanitizer first, then squeezing the sanitizer in them.  I think I will start soaking them in PBW first, then soaking them in sanitizer.  Since I already opened one of these bottles and it did not gush, i don't think I infected during bottling.  I will keep these at room temp till Josh sayeth the barrel is ready.  Thanks again for the really valuable info!

Kyle N
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John - make sure you rinse

John - make sure you rinse with hot water between PBW and Star-San. This actually goes for being in the brewhouse as well - PBW is basic while Star-San works by being acidic. Going directly from PBW to Star-San could be enough to raise the pH of your Star-San, making it not as effective. 

johngammal
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Hi Westi brew buddies. Since

Hi Westi brew buddies. Since the barrel has taken a sour turn, my batch that never made it into the barrel is no longer necessary for comparison.  I'm inviting a bunch of co workers to teach/show them about the club and brew a batch. I will bring  the bottles then. I opened a bunch on the way, to make sure they weren't infected or anything. A little over armed, but no infection. The one was had at the draft was delicious. I have one bomber for everyone and eight 12oz bottles. So the first 8 to the brew house get a bomber and 12oz bottle. The last 2 only get a bomber.  i refrigerators do them, so they probably should stay cold. They'll be there tomorrow after 5. Thanks!

johngammal
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Hi everyone. The beers are in

Hi everyone. The beers are in the main fridge with a 'W' on the cap. First 8 people take a bomber and a 12oz bottle. Last 2 will just have a bomber. At this point, I'd just keep them cold and they are ready to enjoy. Sorry there weren't more!

brockboland
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Aw man, I hadn't heard that

Aw man, I hadn't heard that it went sour :-(

But: thanks John!

josh s
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yeah sorry guys ive been slow

yeah sorry guys ive been slow about moving on things latly.  I found out a few weeks ago the barrel deginatly got infected.  

It might turn out to be a decent sour beer but will need time and a nudge in the right direction to devolpe complexity.

Well check back in a few months.

 

josh s
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All,

All,

 

Update on this barrel.  I tried it last weekend.  It is as ready as its going to get.  It needs to come out of the barrel to make room asap.

 

I know its short notice but Can everyone have acceptable carboys etc.  ready and waiting at the brewhouse as early as tomorrow night? I may empty then or on saturday.  My schedule will dictate this.

Kyle N
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I'll give it a 50% chance. I

I'll give it a 50% chance. I need to get kegs back from a friend. 

josh s
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If everyone can just get a

If everyone can just get a vessel to the BH asap ill dump it next week when the new barrel gets in.

brockboland
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I'll get one there tonight.

I'll get one there tonight.

JamesLewis
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I can get something there

I can get something there friday.

brockboland
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Since I'm new to kegging:

Since I'm new to kegging: would it be a bad idea to keg this since it soured? Wouldn't that result in an infected keg and/or tap lines?

josh s
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brock,

brock,

you can replace the seals on the keg after words.  

johngammal
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Are you doing it this weekend

Are you doing it this weekend for sure?  I can get a keg there Tuesday unless it's happening this weekend. Then I will find a way

josh s
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john,

john,

are you coming tonight to goose, if so bring it there?  If everyone gets their vessal there asap I should have enough time tomorrow to get it done.

 

but if not i know its short notice itll get done next week.

ICEHOUSE 666
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Anyone, feel free to take my

Anyone, feel free to take my share from this barrel. 

Kyle N
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I'll have kegs there tomorrow

I'll have kegs there tomorrow. I'll take Rob's. Gonna pitch some bugs and see what happens

brockboland
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Did Zach Burns' brew make it

Did Zach Burns' brew make it in the barrel? I'm pretty sure he moved a while back, I haven't seen him in ages.

ChuckMac
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WAS this a 5 gallon batch or

WAS this a 5 gallon batch or 10? I cant remember and it determines what I bring in tomorrow.

Kyle N
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5 gallons, I'm pretty sure.

5 gallons, I'm pretty sure.

ChuckMac
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Oh well, I dropped off 2 5

Oh well, I dropped off 2 5 gallon glass carboys.

Josh, they are over by the T.o.P. and they need to be sanitized.

If anyone can't get a keg or carboy over, feel free to use my extra just let me know who has it.

 

Jeff W
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I checked withZach, he did

I checked withZach, he did brew for the barrel. Can we use Chuck's extra carboy for Zach's batch?

Kyle N
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I cleaned, sanitized, and

I cleaned, sanitized, and pressurized two kegs for the emptying. They're by everyone else's shit. Thanks, Josh. 

josh s
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I emptied this earlier.

I emptied this earlier.  Everyones stuff is up by the top.  Jeff i put yours into chucks extra carboy.  

johngammal
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Thanks for taking care of all

Thanks for taking care of all of that, Josh.  It was the best Valentine's Day gift I've ever received!

brockboland
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For those of you will be

For those of you will be bottling this: are you planning to add champagne yeast or something at bottling time?

Jeff W
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Thanks, Josh!

Thanks, Josh!

Yes, if you're bottling, use 1/2 a pack of champagne yeast, along with priming sugar.

Jeff W
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Brock, when you bottle, be

Brock, when you bottle, be sure to use the sour bottling equipment. It's in the sour storage tub in the shower.

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