Port/Bourbon Barrel Brew

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Grizwald
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Port/Bourbon Barrel Brew

Hello,

I am a new member to Chaos, but long time homebrewer.  I have recently been lucky enough to get my hands on a perfect for brewing condition whisky barrel.  I don't have the ability to brew enough at home to fill this baby so I wanted to come here and see if anyone has any good ideas, and or desire to collaborate on filling it.

Barrel History:  French Oak, toasted inside.  Used 3 years as a port barrel, then bought by Angel's Envy to finish bourbon in.  3 batches at 3-4 months each.  This barrel was emptied of bourbon last week, and is still wet and clean inside.

My current ideas are leaning towards a chocolate stout or a big IPA, but I would like to hear some of your thoughts.

 

Its a bad pic, but this is what I am looking to work with.

 

kengetty
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Joe,

Joe,

 

Welcome to the club and looking forward to brewing/learning from you soon.  At our last space we had a more robust barrel program than we currently have at our new space, but this is something that is a part of what CHAOS does.  Typically if a member buys a barrel they tend to head up the project and post about it on the forum...basically what you did here.  Out most recent thread is being headed up by Josh Smith and can be seen here.

Usually there is a bit of brainstorming and recipe development...the hard part is getting everyone to brew the batches need to go into the barrel.

If you are coming to the party on Saturday you will have a chance to try several of our previous barrel projects.  Looking forward to seeing how this project turns out...and you can count me in to brew for this as well.

Ken

Grizwald
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I wish I was able to make it

I wish I was able to make it this weekend, unfortunately I will be out of town.

I would love to discuss some recipies and see what other people's ideas are for filling this thing.  Port and Bourbon flavors seem like a really interesting combo.

I plan on doing some test brews while I get to know the space to see if some recipes might work.  If anyone has some good ideas, I am open to anything.

Thanks, I am happy to join such and interesting group.

kengetty
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I brewed a RIS for this

I brewed a RIS for this upcoming stout night that I aged on Hennessey soaked spirals for a month and it turned out amazing, with the flavors complimenting each other.  With the Port & Bourbon character...I'm thinking either a RIS, Old Ale or English Barley Wine to accentuate the malt bills.

mikesummer78
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I'd like to help with this

I'd like to help with this barrel project if y'all will have me. 

Grizwald
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The more the merrier.  There

The more the merrier.  There is 50+ gallons of beer that need filling here.

RIS was my first thought as well, but I am open to trying something off the beaten path if you guys are in to the sours, barrel aged IPA, or barley wines.

ChuckMac
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A few pointers on setting up

A few pointers on setting up a barrel project
In the past we would have 12 folks brewing 5 gallons to fill a 60 gallon barrel. The problem with this is trying to get 12 folks to brew their beer in a timely manner, some barrels would take at least a couple months if not more to get brewed.
Also, you wait 6 months to a year for your beer to age and when you get your share your down to 3 gallons, damn angels!
I have proposed that ya cut the folks in participating in half and have them brew 10 gallon batches.
You will fill your barrel faster and everyone walks away with more beer.
My ¢0.02...

Kyle
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I would love to brew for this

I would love to brew for this barrel project and help with a recipe. I have been appointed CHAOS' "Master of Wood" meaning I help out and oversee our barrel projects. I have been involved in brewing for the majority of our barrel projects and coordinating the fills and emptyings. That being said I would love to see some sort of Barleywine go into this, but that is just one vote. Look forward to seeing this new barrel project come together. Also I am curious. How are you keeping this barrel sealed and clean until fill? I assume you have a bung in there but is it flushed with CO2 and or wrapped in cling film to maybe keep some of the wetness in?

Jeff W
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I would like to get in on

I would like to get in on this barrel project and am more than happy to help out with any cleaning or heavy lifting.

Canuck
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I would like to get in on

I would like to get in on this barrel as well.  RIS or Barleywine.

The emperor is not as forgiving as i am

mikesummer78
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i'm okay with either ris or

i'm okay with either ris or barleywine, as well as either 5 or 10 gallons.

lucas
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I'm in as long as its not

I'm in as long as its not something super hoppy like a black IPA.  

Oh... my... god.  Why haven't we done this?    http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...

JamesLewis
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Barrel preservation is key

Barrel preservation is key here. It takes time to brew 55g, so coordinate with Kyle about keeping it clean.

I dont have the capacity to contribute to the barrel right now but I would agree with the old ale or an english barleywine. You could also consider a doppelbock or a Belgian dark strong. 

kengetty
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Becaues the barrel is fresh I

Becaues the barrel is fresh I think we should be brewing something between 11-13% to handle all the flavor. Can we narrow it down to the following: RIS, Barley Wine or Olde Ale?

Grizwald
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Barley Wine sounds good to me

Barley Wine sounds good to me and seems like the leading suggestion, so I think lets focus thoughts around that.

The 10 gallon per person sounds like a wise suggestion just to keep things easier, but I would hate to exclude anyone that wants to contribute.  I guess we can sort collaborators as a schedule is drawn up and availability is taken into account.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts so far, lets keep it rolling.

josh s
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Im in and also think a

Im in and also think a barlywine is a good choice.

kengetty
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If we nail the recipe down by

If we nail the recipe down by next week we could coordinate it with the Group Grain Buy...I'm thinking a nice Eniglish Barley Wine with Marris Otter being the base malt.

Jeff W
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At the risk of sounding

At the risk of sounding stupid, what's RIS?

I'm up for a barley wine!

JamesLewis
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You should look at some of

You should look at some of these other English malts for the base. Optic might be a good choice. 

Fawcett Maris Otter (2.3-3.0°L)
Maris Otter has long been the favorite of English brewers for its brewhouse performance and rich, slightly nutty flavor. An excellent malt for any English beer style. All of Fawcett’s Maris Otter malt is still produced in their traditional floor maltings.

Fawcett Golden Promise (2.3-3.0°L) 
Golden Promise is a traditional Pale Ale Malt grown in Scotland. It produces sweet, mellow wort and is excellent for both brewing and distilling.

Fawcett Halcyon (2.3-3.0°L)
Halcyon is a barley variety that was bred from the Maris Otter and Sargent barley varieties. It tends to produce a less sweet wort than Maris Otter.

Fawcett Optic (2.3-3.0°L) 
Optic is a barley variety widely grown in the United Kingdom. Our customers have been impressed with its highly aromatic qualities.

Fawcett Pearl (2.3-3.0°L) 
A traditional English barley variety known for its slightly bready flavor.

Canuck
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@ Jeff Russian Imeprial Stout

@ Jeff Russian Imeprial Stout

The emperor is not as forgiving as i am

Jesse
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I'd like to brew for this as

I'd like to brew for this as well. I'm up for any style.

Jesse

Grizwald
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So it looks like I will be

So it looks like I will be bringing the barrel over on Monday evening (around 6) to make sure it stays ready to use until we fill it.  Kyle will be helping me prep the barrel, but if anyone wants to discuss recipes and drink a beer this could be a good time.

 

mikesummer78
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I'd like to know how to do

I'd like to know how to do that but might not be able to make it until 7:30 if at all. Any chance you could snap a few pics of the process and post a little on it?  I'm sure others are curious as well. I'll try to come and help if possible. 

Grizwald
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For sure!  I have been

For sure!  I have been reading around the internet and there seems to be a general lack of solid information.  Most people are just posting generalities like keep it wet or dont star san bourbon barrels.  All good info, but nothing specific like, how long does it take for a wet barrel to dry out?

Jer-Bear
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If you need some extra beer I

If you need some extra beer I can brew whatever is going.  Let me know if you need someone to brew up 5-6 gallons.

 

 

pieps
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I'm a friend of Joe's and

I'm a friend of Joe's and another newbie around here. I don't have any brewing experience, but would love to tag along and look over folks' shoulders/help where appropriate. I'm super excited to be a part of this community and learn/drink some new things.

eric
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I'm interested in joining

I'm interested in joining this project... RIS would be first choice, barleywine second.

Jefftravis17
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I'd like a spot on this as

I'd like a spot on this as well, if you go RIS route. Thanks

Grizwald
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Sounds like we have more than

Sounds like we have more than enough volunteers, but we can work out who is brewing once we have a schedule to make sure everyone can accomodate it.

I still plan on coming over at 6 tonight with the barrel, and if anyone wants to chat about recipes over a beer or two while we play with the barrel, it would be quite welcome.

Kyle
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So Joe and I got the barrel

So Joe and I got the barrel cleaned, purged and soaked in a bit more bourbon last night. We should be good for a few weeks, but lets get this ball rolling. Post up your best barleywine recipe and lets get a schedule in place.

Rich
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If you need one more for this

If you need one more for this, let me know.

MarkWalters
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So last night the idea of a

So last night the idea of a rye barleywine was kicked around. I found this recipie and scaled it up to a 10 Gallon batch. Any input? If there is room in this barrel I'd love to brew for it.

http://beercalculus.hopville.com/recipes/chaos-rye-wine

mikesummer78
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that looks good to me.  i

that looks good to me.  i could brew early next week.

ChuckMac
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A Rye maaan I want in on this

A Rye maaan I want in on this! Could have it brewed by Sunday!

kengetty
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The grain bill looks a little

The grain bill looks a little light.  Unfortunately, the efficiency doing a batch sparge with something this big will never reach 75% efficiency...more like 65% if we are lucky.

Kyle
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Think we also want to use

Think we also want to use Marris Otter as the base malt.

MarkWalters
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I changed the base malt &

I changed the base malt & added 10%, decreased the efficiency, increased the rye, and took out the dry hop since we're going to barrel. All good feedback.

kengetty
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Didn't look at the hop bill

Didn't look at the hop bill till just now.  I'm in favor of an English Barleywine instead of an American....for one I like them better and secondly the hops will take away from the barrel character.

I haven't used Rye, but think we might want to scale it back to 5% of the grain bill.  Obviously we want the Rye to be evident, but second to the base malt and barrel.

Thoughts?

  •  
Grizwald
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The hops are really going to

The hops are really going to mellow out over the long aging period (8 months+?) so they are really just to give some preservitive quality as well as some bitterness.  So I guess scaling them back a bit could be okay.

Ken, what would you propose for hops?

I haven't brewed with rye enough to know how it will come out based on % of bill, so I can't comment on that.

Is 10% high enough ABV, and can that yeast handle it?

kengetty
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The problem with that much

The problem with that much hop fading, you are essentially trowning money away...there will be no issues with perservation.  American Barley Wine are suppose to be very hoppy per the style, while an English Barley Wine malty.

 

I would recommend something along these lines:

90(First Wort) - 2oz of UK Target or Challenger

30 - 1.5oz of EK Goldings or Styrian Goldings

10 - 1.5oz of EK Goldings or Styrian Goldings

 

Good question about the ABV and Kyle talked a little bit about this last week.  I think that our starters need to be huge!  Second, I think we need to do a decoction mash on a gallon or so of our first runnings with a mash temp around 150.  This will allow there to be plenty of fermentable sugars and get the carmel malt flavor.  Third, we should split the cost for a tank of oxygen and hit our beers at the begining and about 12 hours later.

ChuckMac
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I have a Raggen that's 40%

I have a Raggen that's 40% rye... A 10% of rye will be fine. I second going with an English style Barley Wine...

lucas
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I agree, hops bad, malt

I agree, hops bad, malt better!  English all the way!

Oh... my... god.  Why haven't we done this?    http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...

eric
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I would suggest that you guys

I would suggest that you guys mash a lot higher than 150. The beer will thin out after months in the barrel. You don't want it too dry...

kengetty
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I plugged in 1.110 into

I plugged in 1.110 into MrMalty and its showing we are going to need about 734 Billion Yeast cells or a 16 Liter starter per 10 gallons.  So start growing your yeasties now.

I have been using San Diego Super Yeast lately and very happy with the attenuation results.  Kyle and I thought we might want to approach the guys at Omega Yeast Labs about doing a bulk rate.

Kyle
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If we didn't want to be

If we didn't want to be bothered growing HUGE starters up or buying 5 smack packs, Mr Malty says we could use two 11gram dry yeast packs in each 5 gallon carboy and have more than enough yeast. US-04 anyone?

JamesLewis
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Couple thoughts. Eric is

Couple thoughts. Eric is right, shoot for a higher mash temp. 154-156
You won't hit 1.110 without other fermentables or an extended boil to concentrate the wort. Best case shoot for 1.090 and decide if you want to use dme or to boil it down to hit higher gravity.

kengetty
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I'm still researching the

I'm still researching the homebrewtalk forums about people's experience brewing big barley wines and they all pretty much warn if you do anything higher than 152 that the gravity will stall out at 1.045-1.050...but I only read about 4-5 threads, but there seems to be a consensus regarding low mash temps.

chirocky
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I'd like to jump on this as

I'd like to jump on this as well. Do we have an agreed upon recipe yet? let me know, would love to be a part of this barrel project.

kengetty
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I just sent a tweet to Matt

I just sent a tweet to Matt Brynildson at Firestone Walker about recommended Mash Temps for this project.

Kyle
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It seems like we have way

It seems like we have way more people interested than 10 gallon batches would allow. If we want to go back to 5 gals per person it seems like we already have 15 people itching to go. We need to figure out how we want to do this. It can be as simple as the first 70 gallons of the recipe that are brewed and up to par as far as quality get put in the barrel. 

ChuckMac
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How about the folks who are

How about the folks who are involved with the 2 on going barrel projects back out of this one. If we still have more than six then do a lottery. Myself am not going thru the 12 person 5 gallon mess again... Its just not worth the time and money spent to get a little more than a 12 pack of bombers...

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