Bourbon County Clone- Barreling Project

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DanielBarker
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Bourbon County Clone- Barreling Project

Recipe:


 

 

UK 2-row- 19 lbs

Munich- 1.62 lbs

Belgian Debittered- .81 lbs

Roast Barley- 2.16 lbs

Chocolate- 1.35 lbs

Crystal 60- 2.16 lbs

 


 

Total 27 lbs-

75 Minute- 2 ounces Willamette

30 minute- 1 ounce Willamette

0 minute- 1 ounce Willamette


 

 

60 IBU

 


 

Mash at 154-156 degrees, no lower.

OG- 1.129

FG- 1.040

Yeast- US-04- 2 packets, or a starter with equivalent yeast count. 

(424 billion yeast cells needed, equivalent to two 11.5 gram dry yeast packets)- Mr. Malty

Hitting the numbers:

I mashed with 6.75 gallons split over 2 different mash tuns.  Using two different mash tuns helps with efficiency theoretically, although I'd be interested to see someone try and do the whole thing in one tun, to see if their numbers are as good.  Remember to thoroughly mix up all your grain if you split it into two tuns.  You'll need the base grain's enzyme's to interact with the specialty grain and you won't be getting as good numbers if you're trying to sparge equal amounts in a tun that has more base than another. 

 

That's 1 quart per lb of grain for the mash.  I did another batch mashing with more like 1.25 or 1.5 quarts per lb and ended up with more liquid.  I got the same numbers but had to boil down more for the latter.  I suggest mashing light and sparging more.  Your preboil volume should probably be at least 9 gallons.  You'll need to boil off down to 5.  The more you sparge the better your numbers will be after boil off.  Remember that you should add hops in not at the start of the boil but when you think you have 75 minutes left, roughly.  My boils have been anywhere from 90 to 120 minutes.  It depends on your system.  Remember that if you start out at a lower original gravity, your final gravity will also be off, negatively affecting the final mouthfeel and sweetness of the beer.

I'll be printing up worksheets for people to fill out as they brew to figure out what the most efficient way of brewing such a big beer is. 

For fermentation, please be aware that you should really be using a 6-6.5 gallon carboy or bucket with equivalent headspace.  Using a 5 gallon carboy will result in the loss of beer through blow off (which happened anyways with one of my batches in a 6.5 gallon carboy).  Alternatively, you may split the batch in half over two carboys, as long as the yeast count for each is equal.  This is ok as long as you remember to recombine them into one carboy after primary fermentation has completed.  This will ensure that oxidation doesn't occur from the high amount of headspace you'll have with 2.5 gallons in a 5 gallon fermenter.  Please don't slack off on recombining.

Also, be aware that fermentation of such a high-gravity beer will result in high internal temperatures.  The beer will produce its own heat.  English ale yeast, when it reaches high temperatures, will produce fruity esters that completely dominate and overtake the aroma and taste profile of the beer.  You don't want this to happen to such an expensive beer.  We can't put too many beers that taste like this into the barrel.  Current ferm-room temperatures should be good enough for the beer.  The outside digital gauge should be reading 66-67, or less.  If it gets between 68-70 it will produce a bad beer.  I've had two high gravity batches of beer ferment at this temp and their ester profile was overwhelming.

As the organizer of this barrel I will reserve the right for myself to reject any batch that I think will compromise the integrity of the barrel.  If I think your batch is awful because you did something dumb like oxidized it, infected it, fermented it at wrong temperatures, forgot to filter out and remove the hot break, or did an atrocious job of hitting your numbers, I might replace your beer.  Tough love.  You will need to do a good job of hitting correct numbers by correctly calculating mash temperatures, mash and sparge volumes as well as monitoring fermentation temperatures.  If you are concerned about brewing a quality batch, talk with me and we can work together making it.  I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has.  Dave and Niilo also have a lot of experience brewing large gravity beers.  Even if you've never done all-grain, you could still do a good job with the help of someone who has.

Also, I would prefer if we didn't add extract or sugar to any of the batches.  I want this to be an all grain beer.

I'm shopping around for the best prices as this is going to be a pricey beer.  I emailed jon about grain and will check a few other places while I wait to hear back from him.  You will need to provide your own 2-row.  Let me know if you intend to brew this and don't need a certain type of grain.

If anyone already signed up decides to duck out, please let me know.  Details on payment and grain to come.

Barrel:

Daniel- 5, Brewed and paid.

Dave- 5, Brewed and paid

Niilo- 5, Brewed and paid

Kevin Saberniak- 5, Brewed and paid

Sean Colleran- 5, Brewed and Paid

Adam Yorke- 5, Brewed and Paid

Tommy Messersmith- 5, Brewed

Kyle Arnold- 5, Brewed and paid

Pete- 5, Brewed and paid

James Lewis- 5, Brewed and paid

Jim Chochola- 5, Brewed and paid

Bill Sansom- 5,

Eric Padilla- 5

Kyle
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I will be out of town this

I will be out of town this wknd and not able to make it. My carboy is still in the same place in the ferm room. Hope everything goes well!

eric
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My batch is on the bottom

My batch is on the bottom shelf on the west side of the ferm room, in carboy with a blue handle and a tag with my name. I tasted it last Sunday when I racked it to secondary and it was tasty. Not sure if I'll be able to make it, but I'll stop by before 3pm if I can...

ksaberni
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i should be able to make it

i should be able to make it on th 25th and stay and help out. 

Kevin Saberniak

JimChochola
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I may be able to make it; I

I may be able to make it; I spoke too soon. I asked the person organizing the tournament when it should wrap up and he said by 2 p.m. (barring any split sets). I'll head straight to the brew house thereafter.

Sean Colleran
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I will make sure my beer is

I will make sure my beer is at the brew house by then, but not sure I can stay for the barreling.

JimChochola
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Unfortunately I can't make it

Unfortunately I can't make it. My beer is in the ferm room, bottom shelf on the west wall in the six gallon better bottle labeled "JWiC". Thanks, someone, for taking care of mine.

I myself am going to taste it tomorrow when I'm at the brew house but please taste it yourself, Daniel, before it goes into the barrel just to make sure it meets the standards.

adman
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I'll be there finishing up a

I'll be there finishing up a brew as well.

JamesLewis
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Ill be there finishing up a

Ill be there finishing up a brew. 

Kyle
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I should be able to come and

I should be able to come and help out, but if I can't my beer is in a secondary on the east shelf of the ferm room.

DanielBarker
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I will be there to barrel

I will be there to barrel this beer on the 25th at 3 pm.  Please have your beer at the brewhouse before the 23rd if you haven't already.  The beer should arrive this early to allow it to clarify after being shaken up in transit.  Anyone is allowed to show up and help but it isn't mandatory.  I only need 2 or 3 others.  Everyone please post to confirm that you've seen this and let me know where your beer is!

adman
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Sean,

Sean,

Yeah, I don't find mine cloying either; I think the sweetness is well balanced by the roastiness of the malts as well as the restrained hop bitterness.  I am so excited to have ~5 gallons of this when it is finished barrel aging.  

-Adam

Sean Colleran
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I believe my FG was 1.044. 

I believe my FG was 1.044.  It's definitely sweet, but I was trying to get across that it tasted like 2011 Dark Lord without being cloying and overly sweet.  Interesting that yours isn't as boozy as mine.  Maybe it just seemed that way to me because I've been drinking nothing but pale ales and IPA's all summer.

adman
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Sean, 

Sean, 

What were your OG and FG?  I find mine to be pretty sweet, because it finished at 1.050 (OG 1.127); I actually don't notice the alcohol as much as I'd expect for a ~10% abv beer, particularly since all of the samples I've had have been 70* F or warmer.  I agree that it already tastes fantastic, and that with some barrel aging it should be amazing.

-Adam

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The consistency and color are

The consistency and color are very similar to BCBS.  It tastes like a much less sweet version of last year's Dark Lord, with more of an alcohol kick at the end, similar to BCBS.  Really complex, great mouthfeel, tons of malt character without the astringency a lot of Imperial Stouts have.  Smells fantastic, although the alcohol comes through in the nose a little more than I like, but I don't see how that could be avoided at this ABV.  I'm beyond excited about this beer.  The barrel aging should really take it over the top.  Great recipe!

Sean Colleran
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Holy crap it's good.

Holy crap it's good.

Sean Colleran
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I think I am free on the 25th

I think I am free on the 25th.  I racked mine to secondary after about three weeks in primary, and there's now actually a second yeast cake, which it's been sitting on for a while.  I think the racking reactivated the yeast and kick-started the fermentation.  It's a much smaller yeast cake, so hopefully it hasn't produced too many off flavors.  Will taste it tonight and report back.

JimChochola
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Only a few minutes of

Only a few minutes of wireless access here.

Thanks for tasting, Adam. How was it?
I was the last one to brew. I don't recall date but I agree it hasn't been sitting on the cake long enough to do harm.

JamesLewis
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I am not sure of my

I am not sure of my availability that weekend, but it is likely I am around

David
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I can probably help you dan

I can probably help you dan depending on the day, Let me know.

adman
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I should be available on the

I should be available on the 25th.  Also, Jim, I'm happy to taste your batch and/or throw it into secondary while I'm at the brewhouse today.  I have a 5 gallon better bottle, or I can put it into a corny and put a tiny bit of gas on it just to set the lid and stave off any potential oxidation.  That's what I did with mine.

DanielBarker
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As long as we can get 2 other

As long as we can get 2 other people available at some point on or around the 25th, I'm ok with that.  It's usually a waste of space to have everyone who brewed there.  I don't mind rinsing out other people's carboys.  If I can get a few other volunteers we'll proceed on that weekend. 

 

Also, I need for someone to get a ride for a couple of barrel racks from goose island at fulton. 

 

 

David
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I tasted my batch about 2

I tasted my batch about 2 weeks ago.  I too left it in primary for probably longer than it should have.  It doesn't taste as good as it did in the past...but it's still pretty good.  \

As for the 25th...there is a good possibility that I will be harvesting my hops that weekend.

JimChochola
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I'm just a ball of bad news:

I'm just a ball of bad news: I'm out of town until late on Monday the 6th so earliest I could taste mine and move it to secondary is Tuesday the 7th; I cannot make it on the 25th until late evening. If this all needs to be done on these exact dates (tasting/secondary today and filling on 25th), I'd pay someone in beer to do it for me. Mines the better bottle with a slim blow off which has about 4.5 gallons and whose blowoff is the gallon (?) glass apple juice jug.

DanielBarker
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How does August 25th sound

How does August 25th sound for the filling date?  It's a saturday.  Everyone please let me know your availability.

Daniel Barker said:

So, we now have Bill Sansom and Eric Padilla scheduled to brew two more batches, which should give us enough.  We'll cancel the filler batch. 

Can everyone please taste their batches today and report on how  they are?  If  you're still sitting on a yeast cake at this point, you should probably be transferring to secondary.  Such a high alcohol beer will accelerate yeast autolysis, adding very bad flavors to the beer.  I learned this the hard way.  I originally brewed 10 gallons for the barrel but one batch had been sitting in primary so long, we won't be able to use it.  Please everyone verify that your batch isn't infected.  This is very important.  I don't want us to get to the barrel filling to find that we're ten short because of unexpected spoiled beer.

 

If you report now then that gives us time to give Adam the go-ahead to brew a filler batch. 

LMK.

DanielBarker
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So, we now have Bill Sansom

So, we now have Bill Sansom and Eric Padilla scheduled to brew two more batches, which should give us enough.  We'll cancel the filler batch. 

Can everyone please taste their batches today and report on how  they are?  If  you're still sitting on a yeast cake at this point, you should probably be transferring to secondary.  Such a high alcohol beer will accelerate yeast autolysis, adding very bad flavors to the beer.  I learned this the hard way.  I originally brewed 10 gallons for the barrel but one batch had been sitting in primary so long, we won't be able to use it.  Please everyone verify that your batch isn't infected.  This is very important.  I don't want us to get to the barrel filling to find that we're ten short because of unexpected spoiled beer.

 

If you report now then that gives us time to give Adam the go-ahead to brew a filler batch. 

LMK.

adman
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It looks like there will be

It looks like there will be folks around to let me into the brewhouse on Sunday, so I will plan on doing a 10 gallon batch of brown ale, with 5.5 gallons or so as filler for this.

Let's get this monster into the barrel!

adman
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Assuming that you're cool

Assuming that you're cool with me using your pot, it's really not that difficult to do a 10 gallon batch instead of a 5, so I'll do that.

DanielBarker
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Adam, if you're willing to do

Adam, if you're willing to do that, it would be terrific!  That's all we would need to fill the barrel.  I think the high numbers many people have brought in could sustain the drop in gravity from the brown.

JamesLewis
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I fully support the use of a

I fully support the use of a brown ale for a filler batch

adman
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Daniel,

Daniel,

Any idea when this is going to be put in the barrel?  If we just need a "filler" batch, I was thinking of trying to brew a brown ale soon; I could do 10 gallons and leave 5 to top off the barrel if necessary.

-Adam

JimChochola
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I'm going to be brewing this

I'm going to be brewing this on Monday the 2nd. I have tons of north American two row but no UK. If it makes a huge difference, can I buy 19 lbs of UK two row from someone?

DanielBarker
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Jim is brewing a batch on

Jim is brewing a batch on Thursday.  We need one more!  I'm sure there's going to be a lot of trub and yeast loss on this one so I want to make sure we have plenty.  Please let me know if you're interested.

David
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So this grain bill is 27.10

So this grain bill is 27.10 pounds of grain. The potential sugar if you are shooting for 5 gallons is 1.187. If you are doing 4.5, as Tommy did, the sugar potential jumps up to 1.208.

So a gravity of 1.172, in a 4.5 gallon batch equates to 82.5% efficency.

The target being 1.129 with a potential of 1.187, then equates to 68.8% efficency.

If you bump the batch size up to 5.5 gallons sugar potential is 1.170. Assuming the 1.129 target listed in the recipe, this would be 75.86% eff.

With a 6 gallon batch it sugar is 1.156 and a eff of 82.5%.

So the fact that you got those numbers Tommy I think is simply because you boiled off more wort, and got decent efficency (in the low 80s).

DanielBarker
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are you sure?  Is it possible

are you sure?  Is it possible to get that high?  How much less than five did you get?

DanielBarker
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so, I checked one of kevin's

so, I checked one of kevin's barrels and it smells delicious.  Doesn't seem to be any problems from the scent.  I think if it had problems that could overcome a 12 or 13 percent beer, you'd smell it. 

 

Jim Chochola and Tommy M are brewing this now, which leaves us with a single spot open.  Try and rope someone into it!  It's a great beer so far!

Kyle
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I vote we empty mine. Dump in

I vote we empty mine. Dump in the bourbon we have from the other buckets. Let that sit for a week or so then fill it.

DanielBarker
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I kinda want to do it in a

I kinda want to do it in a bourbon barrel.  One of us should check kevin's barrels, their as old.  If those seem sketchy, I think we should discuss on here whether we should use kyle's barrel which has had cleaning solution for a long long time and therefore probably less character or the templeton barrel which isn't going to have as high a level of char, and therefore not the same exact characteristics of a bourbon county.

ksaberni
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Transferred to secondary

Transferred to secondary today.  Gravity = 1.044.  Tasted awesome.  Really nice roasted taste.

.

Kevin Saberniak

David
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Garry gulley (of panic

Garry gulley (of panic brewing - a local startup) has offered up a templeton rye barrel...if we are interested. Its 53 gallons, and he has had it for 2 or 3 months...the barrel was never stored with water or holding solution, but the bung has not been removed since the barrel was dumped of whiskey.
Considerations - do we have space for this barrel? Do we want to fill this or does it need a cleaning?

So what do you guys think? Do we want this TR barrel?

JamesLewis
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Knowing that we lacking

Knowing that we lacking bitterness, I threw all my hops in at 90, so my batch shold be a bit more bitter than the others. But it will be a drop in the 55 gallon bucket. 

If it comes out and it is not bitter enough there are easy remedies to add bitterness that we can do in the barrel.

adman
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Yeah, regardless of the

Yeah, regardless of the actual IBUs, I think the recipe tastes great.  Although it is sweet and very thick, there's enough bitterness from the hops and some almost coffee-like bitterness from the roasted grains that helps keep it in balance.  I doubt very much that I'd have more than one of these in a night, but that doesn't mean that they don't taste fantastic.

David
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What is the alpha on them? I

What is the alpha on them? I had some that were 4.9 and my IBU w/ gravity came out a little higher. Regardless, I think this beer tastes great. Good job with the recipe, Daniel!

DanielBarker
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Yeah, sorry, the hops are off

Yeah, sorry, the hops are off with the 4 ounce packets I ordered.  They turned out to be lower AAU's than the ones I used when writing the recipe.  It's coming in at 40 instead of 60 IBUs with the strength that we're using.  This can be remedied by throwing in three ounces at 90 minutes and another at 30, skipping the final addition.

David
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This weekend I revisited my

This weekend I revisited my post-brew nots and did some calculations to try and figure out why my batch ended up so high.

First, I added 1# of uk pale to make it 20#, instead of 19#. I did this because there was a lot of concern from people about coming in low for the numbers and not adding malt extract to adjust. I'd rather add water to bring the gravity down (which was not done because after talking with daniel - we agreed that there will prob be a mix of low and high batches and the gravity may even/balance itself)

I added up the total potential of the grain (GU) and came up with 1.1947 as a total. That gives me, at 1.152 (having collected 5.5 gallons) 85 percent efficiency, which is where most of my batches come in around. The target listed in the recipe is for 1.129, a 66 percent efficiency(5 gallons).

My notes indicate that I used a grist ratio of .89 which infused the mash with 6.25 gallons. I ended up adding another 7 quarts to adjust the temp up into the 156 range. This game me a an effective grist ratio of 1.14 qts/#; a total of 8 gallons in the mash tun. This brought me...straight up to the top...max my tun could hold. Although after about 10 mins when I took another temp reading I did notice that the liquid had dropped a tiny bit and was no longer at the rim...which I have no clue as to why.

After 60 mins holding 155-156 I drained the tun and collected just a hair below 2 gallon...This means I had 6 gallons of grain absorption.

I then did two sparges...the first - 4 gallons; the second - 3 gallons.

I was using Jim or evans pot...can't remember which. Whatever one is 10 gallons and is marked 4,6,8 gallons. I estimated just above 9 gallons collect.

I then boiled down to 5.5 gallons. I got tired of boiling so I stopped at what looked like just above 5.5 gallons...but in the fermenter it measured a hair below the 5.5 line. I assume due to trub/hop losses.

Final reading before pitching yeast was 1.152. I cooled to 70 and pitched 4 packets.

I came back the next day after work and split the 5.5 gallons into two fermenters. About 15 days later I recombined them back into one.

So that's it, according to my notes. What was everyone else experience. If I did this again, I'd do it in a similar fashion...but would scale the recipe, lowering grain totals, and shoot for 85 percent efficiency. I also, after tasting my batch which finished sweeter, would probably add a little more hops. This beer is way unbalanced in regards to bitterness/malty sweetness...but I think a little more hops might push back some of the cloying qualities.

That being said. I tried a sample the other day, next to a sample that was at an appropriate finished gravity...and I liked the sweeter one better. Prob just personal preference, but I got more roasted quality from the sweeter sample and less bitter grain quality.

DanielBarker
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goodluck to your barrels.  I

goodluck to your barrels.  I'll smell if I'm the first there.

Sean Colleran
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Yeah, somebody smell Kevin's

Yeah, somebody smell Kevin's bunghole.

ksaberni
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If anyone is at the brewhouse

If anyone is at the brewhouse this week or next, could someone smell the bungholes in my two barrels?  They are the ones that are not on the rack and are stacked one on top of the other.  I would appreciate it.  I'm going to post a recipe for one of the barrels soon and want to know if my barrels are infected or not. Thanks

 

Kevin Saberniak

DanielBarker
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we need 3 more batches to

we need 3 more batches to fill.  The two names currently on the list aren't really 100 percent positive about doing it.  Let me know if you're interested in doing the barrel, or doing another 5.

DanielBarker
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awesome!  Great numbers guys!

awesome!  Great numbers guys!

ksaberni
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Brewed this yesterday. 

Brewed this yesterday.  Collected 9 gallons of wort.  Used one 10 gallon mash tun.  Suprisingly never got a stuck sparge.  Ended up at 1.120 with roughly 5.75 gallons of wort. 

Kevin Saberniak

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